{"id":40174,"date":"2026-06-03T13:04:33","date_gmt":"2026-06-03T10:04:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/?p=40174"},"modified":"2026-06-03T13:04:34","modified_gmt":"2026-06-03T10:04:34","slug":"beyond-policies-cultivating-a-culture-of-care","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/en\/beyond-policies-cultivating-a-culture-of-care\/","title":{"rendered":"Beyond policies: cultivating a culture of care"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"text\">\n    <h6 style=\"text-align: center;\">WHEN on Topic: Beyond policies: cultivating a culture of care<\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Can a <strong>culture of caregiving<\/strong> exist within businesses and organizations when there are no <strong>policies and procedures<\/strong>?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In the new episode of our podcast, <strong>Stella Kasdagli<\/strong> discusses with <strong>George Filtsos<\/strong>, Head of Employee Relations and People Advisory at Kaizen, how the <strong>culture<\/strong> of a business or organization is formed beyond policies, and <strong>how<\/strong> the tools used by large companies can be applied to small businesses and organizations.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In the 12th episode of WHEN on Topic, which is implemented within the framework of the <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/en\/caredizo-care-is-everyones-responsibility\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CAREdiZO<\/a><\/strong> project, we pose key questions:<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Can the <strong>culture<\/strong> of a business or organization be created on conscious <strong>values<\/strong> \u200b\u200band <strong>principles<\/strong>, and if so, what are they?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">By what <strong>mechanisms<\/strong> can policies emerge from a more established framework and become a way of life for an organization or business?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How can companies help employees achieve <strong>personal balance<\/strong> so they can give their best at work?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is it right to treat everyone the same way when it comes to <strong>flexible<\/strong> working?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How can small businesses and organizations manage the <strong>integration<\/strong> of a culture of care and create policies?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">An episode full of new <strong>ideas<\/strong> and interesting <strong>suggestions<\/strong> that shows us how to leave <strong>policies<\/strong> behind as an obligation and use them as a <strong>tool for equality and connection<\/strong>, as work environments are not only shaped by rules, but also by the experiences of the people who work in them.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: WHEN on Topic: \u03a0\u03ad\u03c1\u03b1 \u03b1\u03c0\u03cc \u03c4\u03b9\u03c2 \u03c0\u03bf\u03bb\u03b9\u03c4\u03b9\u03ba\u03ad\u03c2: \u03c0\u03ce\u03c2 \u03b4\u03b9\u03b1\u03bc\u03bf\u03c1\u03c6\u03ce\u03bd\u03b5\u03c4\u03b1\u03b9 \u03bc\u03b9\u03b1 \u03ba\u03bf\u03c5\u03bb\u03c4\u03bf\u03cd\u03c1\u03b1 \u03c6\u03c1\u03bf\u03bd\u03c4\u03af\u03b4\u03b1\u03c2;\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/5mAJHP4VsWq1e2quWfQeq6?go=1&amp;sp_cid=ecc7b373a936197ae9a00f1040e7d991&amp;utm_source=oembed&amp;utm_medium=desktop&amp;nd=1&amp;dlsi=89b4d5660cad4560\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n<section id=\"nvm-faq-block_ad15899b6722a597193de67484306ed6\" class=\"nvm-faq alignfull\">\r\n    <div class=\"panel panel-width-normal\">\r\n        <div class=\"row small-align-self-center\">\r\n                                        <div class=\"small-column-100 laptop-margin-10 laptop-column-80 small-align-self-center\">\r\n                    <div class=\"faq-wrapper\">\r\n                        <h2 class=\"title color-onyx\">Read the podcast<\/h2>\r\n                                                    <div class=\"faq-container\">\r\n                                                                    <div class=\"responsiville-accordion\">\r\n                                        <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-panel\">\r\n                                            <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-header color-onyx\">\r\n                                                WHEN on Topic | Episode 12: Beyond policies: cultivating a culture of care                                            <\/div>\r\n                                            <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-content\">\r\n                                                <div class=\"text\">\r\n                                                    \n<div class=\"text\">\n    <p><b>Stella<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: Welcome to a new episode of WHEN on Topic. I\u2019m Stella Kasdagli and I welcome you back to discuss women\u2019s professional and economic empowerment and equality at work \u2013 sometimes even outside of it. Our current podcast series is dedicated to caregiving responsibilities and their equal allocation, coming to you \u2013as usual\u2013 thanks to CAREdiZO. What is CAREdiZO? It is a European project we at WHEN are involved in, under the European Commission\u2019s CERV programme, which aims to bridge the gender gap in caring responsibilities by promoting equality practices at home, in micro-enterprises and small civil society organisations, that is organisations with up to 10 employees. The project supports family-friendly policies, encourages men to participate in caregiving and, of course, highlights the value of caregiving in the wider society \u2013 in other words, what we have been advocating for all along. Its activities include research, co-creation workshops, training programmes and the development of digital tools, such as an educational game and podcasts like this one, aimed at combating stereotypes and promoting equality. The rest of our partners come from Cyprus, Lithuania and Bulgaria and are currently developing their own podcasts, which you may have a chance to discover shortly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Our topic today is \u201cWhat happens beyond policies?\u201d In our previous episodes we discussed how important it is to have policies, even in small or very small enterprises and organisations. Today, with the contribution of George Filtsos, Head of Employee Relations and People Advisory at Kaizen, we discuss how culture is shaped beyond these policies and draw on George\u2019s experience to see how the tools used by large companies could be applied in a different way to small businesses and organisations as well. Let\u2019s hear him.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> George, you bring with you a wealth of experience in HR from large companies. And today I\u2019d like us to explore together how everything you\u2019ve learned regarding the \u201cculture of care\u201d \u2013I\u2019ll use an umbrella term\u2013 which is implemented and established within a large company could be interpreted and adapted to a smaller business. And I wanted to start by asking this\u2026 Often, especially in smaller businesses, we hear, \u201cWe\u2019re a family here; we don\u2019t rely on policies or overly structured frameworks, since we all know each other and we\u2019re nice people, who care about one another\u201d. So, my general question in these cases is this: can we guarantee a culture of care when there are no procedures or policies?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right, we certainly can\u2019t guarantee it \u2013 starting, of course, from the premise that culture always exists and will always exist, regardless of policies, because culture is shaped by the people within an organisation. So, whether intentionally or instinctively, there will be a framework, but it won\u2019t be conscious, and it won\u2019t necessarily be fair or equal. So, there can certainly exist a culture without processes or policies; something that exists there, given that people, on the one hand, are imitative beings and want to see how they should behave, and on the other hand, they want to belong somewhere, so they will observe behaviours and unwritten or unspoken rules and try to apply them to fit in, and thirdly, people operate through reward and punishment. Therefore, whatever is rewarded or punished, that is what we will follow. And all of this, though, does create a certain culture. There may be no policies \u2013that is, there may be no foundation\u2013 but a culture will form which will usually continue to favour those it favours right now. Whether it will be fair or unfair depends very much on the leadership; it all becomes very person centered. So yes, there definitely exists a culture, but it\u2019s not conscious; it\u2019s not something built on specific terms&#8230;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 On specific principles or values, possibly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, specific principles.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Or maybe the values are there too. Power can be a value or privilege or being flexible towards people, who I know will take an extra step when needed. Or I could be flexible towards a woman going through a transition, as I see her role being that of the basic caregiver, while if a man asks for the same transition for caregiving reasons, I might say \u201ccome on, you don\u2019t really need to go change diapers right now\u201d. So, values may exist but they may be different from what we would consciously ask for.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And that is exactly why I say that this can lead to the continued creation of inequalities or even equalities, depending on the leadership. Because as long as there doesn\u2019t exist anything to use as guidance, as a de facto standard for how we operate, then the same stereotypes will inevitably continue to be produced, depending on who is leading the said organisation. That\u2019s why policies are useful, even in smaller organisations, as they create a sense of security for people, provided, of course, that these policies are actually put into practice. Because the existence of policies alone doesn\u2019t mean anything; they are a foundation, a starting point, but they are also just words on a piece of paper. Experience is what matters. Even in small companies, in small businesses, it is very important to have a framework, created through such policies and processes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> You said that policies don\u2019t necessarily translate into culture, and that was my next question. What is the mechanism that allows something I\u2019ve said I\u2019ll do to remain just words and not become action? Why does this usually happen, in your experience, in small or large teams?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We\u2019ve often seen that policies follow a checklist \u2013in the sense that we have to do something, either because there is a directive coming from someplace bigger than us, like the European Union or a group to which we belong within which that\u2019s how companies operate in order to attract talent. It can all start with a checklist the practical implications of which we can\u2019t really grasp. For a policy to become a culture, to become part of the organisation\u2019s life, it must first be understood. We need to know what it\u2019s about, why we\u2019re doing it, what we want to achieve with it, and how it fits into our broader DNA. It cannot be contradictory \u2013 that is, we cannot be saying one thing and doing another. Secondly, it must become a lived experience: be interpreted and be put into practice. It is one thing to write it down and understand it, but it is another thing entirely how we apply it. We may say we\u2019re a flexible organisation and prioritize work-life balance, and yet still demand that people respond to emails at 10 or 11 p.m. We may say that we are open to diversity, yet there may be no opposing voices within leadership. All of this stems from policy. And of course, there\u2019s also the question of how consistent we are in these matters and how they translate into what\u2019s important, that is the pivotal moments, the milestones in an employee\u2019s life. In other words, if we have all of this on paper but it doesn\u2019t translate into how we promote people, how we hire people, or how we give a voice in an office, or in a position, then it becomes contradictory again and something that isn\u2019t supported in practice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yes, I am really glad you mentioned these couple of words. That policy needs to be understood and that it also needs to be a lived experience. I was thinking about when we finalised our own policies as an organisation \u2013our internal policies\u2013 a few months ago, and how the issue of language really preoccupied us. The fact that we are an organisation that uses a mode of communication based heavily on directness, lively language, care, and equality. Nevertheless, our policies in their original form had this rigid framework that we\u2019re all used to, and we wondered how this language could remain clear and safe \u2013because there is reason behind the way in which it has been formulated\u2013 while still connecting with people. And I imagine that even in larger groups or in groups that are more diverse in terms of educational, social, and economic backgrounds \u2013perhaps even ethnic and linguistic ones\u2013 one needs to consider other factors too, regarding the accessibility, comprehensibility, and clarity of such policies.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">100%. And there\u2019s always the problem that policies are drafted using legal jargon, which obviously isn\u2019t understood by the average worker. And also, in my experience, it usually starts with what other organisations have done rather than what this organisation looks for. It doesn\u2019t start from the bottom up; it starts from the top down. Which isn\u2019t necessarily a bad thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 And from the outside in, too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Right. And there really exist organisations so diverse where we need to translate, if you will, what it is we\u2019re talking about, why it\u2019s important to us, and how we\u2019ll put it into practice. Which usually doesn\u2019t happen, because policies usually do function like a checklist.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Hmm, yes, that\u2019s important, and I think it also has an impact on people\u2019s understanding of the policies. For example, when we talk about leave\u2026 be it paternity leave or caregiving leave, etc. You often walk into an organisation, regardless how big or small it is, and people have no idea what they\u2019re entitled to. And this isn\u2019t necessarily due to non-existent policies, but because they\u2019re written in such a way that no one wants to sit down and read them or look them up or understand them. So, there\u2019s a big gap there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And then there\u2019s the matter of translation we mentioned earlier, which I believe in very much, and it encompasses all those unspoken things. Sometimes they aren\u2019t unspoken; they are spoken and will be spoken, but it has to do with, for example, leave policies. Paternity leave in Greece, for example, has increased slightly, but only in recent years. Its use remains low regardless\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Hmm, that\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Which has nothing to do with whether this policy is written down somewhere; it has to do with a broader professional and, of course, social context that prevents you from making use of it. And that is the reality that a company needs to change, because a company has the responsibility to change what they stand for as an organisation. How are we looking at supporting you providing the best possible service to the organisation? To do that, there\u2019s also the need to have personal balance.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Certainly. Let me take this example of paternity and parental leave to ask you about the role that companies can play. In a small organisation, the founder might play that role. In a larger organisation, the manager will play that role. And it\u2019s not about how they behave toward George, who comes to ask for paternity leave and they\u2019ll tell him, \u201cSure, George, take it,\u201d but rather to what extent they, Peter, Christos, or Makis, have taken that paternity leave. That is, have they made use of this or other opportunities, themselves, afforded to them either by their position or by company policy to care for other people? How have you seen this play out \u2013 if you\u2019ve seen it happen, seen it matter, or even seen it matter in the opposite way\u2026 I mean, what happens when I have an employer or a manager, a female manager who tells me, \u201cYou go home, but I\u2019m going to stay here until midnight because the work has to get done \u2013 it doesn\u2019t matter that you need to leave\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Exactly. And that ties into what I mentioned earlier about imitation and belonging, and what gets rewarded and what gets punished. If I don\u2019t adopt this \u2013if I can\u2019t see it as my own path within the organisation\u2013 I\u2019ll never want to follow it. Now, of course, regarding your question, managers in general, in medium and large companies, are often the main obstacle in making the policy a lived experience, because they are the interpreters. And they are the interpreters, even as people who will experience it as employees too\u2026 So, if they haven\u2019t experienced it, they simply won\u2019t convey it. But also, to what extent do they have the knowledge of what the policy is and the tools to be able to implement it? When I say \u201ctools,\u201d I obviously don\u2019t mean systems. I mean how I can grant this permission without venturing the outcome I want the team to achieve. Which has to do with productivity, it has to do with planning and available resources. It\u2019s a broader issue. And if I feel that I can\u2019t do this, that I can\u2019t see it through, obviously I won\u2019t bring it to the table as an option. Therefore, it has to do with the lack of empowerment of these people to be able to support a culture of care. And the smaller the organisation, the harder it is. Because in a large organisation, to be honest, it often balances itself out through who does what. The concept of productivity plays itself out; one person ends up covering for another. In smaller companies, where roles are sometimes less clearly defined due to limited resources, it becomes even more difficult. So, this has to start at the top and come as a solution regarding what you can do to help provide flexibility and a work-life balance for your people. And that\u2019s missing. Because, quite simply, we\u2019re not used to it \u2013 let\u2019s be honest. I mean, just thinking about our conversation today, I was thinking a lot about Greece specifically. Because that\u2019s where I live right now. And how different things were when I lived in England. In a multinational company, of course, because even there, I don\u2019t think the average company is terribly flexible. But there was a framework that didn\u2019t allow for exception, and it was so that you could provide your people with what they needed. And there was also a framework for how far you could go. And that\u2019s very important. Because that\u2019s what the processes and policies ensure. What is the limit? So, if I could summarise, I\u2019d say that managers have a pivotal role, but they must first be empowered themselves to play that pivotal role, which isn\u2019t happening.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Right, I have a few casual thoughts I\u2019d like to bring up here, and maybe you can help me based on your experience with your own tools, so to speak. The reason we are discussing managers, even though we are talking about small businesses, is that given the size of our organisation \u2013twelve people\u2013 intermediaries are starting to get involved in the teams, so you run into this obstacle we just discussed, this challenge of how to ensure that the culture you were confident you could instil in your team through direct contact with them continues to trickle down when these intermediary individuals join. So, I see two challenges here. One is that often, people \u2013especially those in smaller teams who take on a managerial role\u2013 don\u2019t necessarily have the leadership experience to create that framework or maintain the position they need to hold as intermediaries. They\u2019re very good at their jobs and have earned this promotion. That doesn\u2019t mean they also have the skills needed to maintain the framework you describe. At the same time, people who climb the ranks within an organisation, big or small, also have ambition. That\u2019s why they\u2019ve been able to find a way to rise to the top. Which means that when they\u2019re given the chance to go the extra mile, they\u2019re very likely to take it. And I say this in a very positive way, and I say it while also making a disclaimer for myself, that I, too, try to set this example of care that we were talking about within the team. Given my need to ensure the sustainability and growth of this organisation, when I\u2019m given the chance to go the extra mile, I\u2019ll do it without necessarily worrying at that moment that I might be sending the wrong message. So right now, I sympathize with the person who, for whatever reasons \u2013personal or collective\u2013 wants to move this thing forward, to get the work done. And while he says, \u201cGo take care of your sick kid, take time for yourself, go do Pilates,\u201d his own behaviour suggests the opposite. So, I\u2019m saying all this to come back to what you said, to the importance of the framework that won\u2019t even allow me, as a founder, to stray too far from what I require my people to do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> You\u2019re absolutely right. If you\u2019ll allow me, I\u2019ll tell you how I think this could work in an ideal organisation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yes, I\u2019d love to hear it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In an ideal\u2026 well, in an organisation that actually functions\u2026 I don\u2019t believe that everyone within such an organisation has to operate in exactly the same way. Because, as you quite rightly said, one person has ambition X, another has ambition Y, one has issue X at home, another has issue Y, and so on. That\u2019s where the translation I mentioned earlier comes into play. It means that you, as the founder, can work until midnight, but the person below you will work their regular hours, take the leave they\u2019re entitled to, or have a flexible schedule. And yet this won\u2019t be an obstacle to advancement; they won\u2019t be singled out, they won\u2019t be stigmatized \u2013 on the contrary, they will be promoted as long as they are good at their job. That\u2019s when the framework works perfectly. We don\u2019t all need to work at the same pace, in the same way, because that, too, goes against flexibility. People work in various ways. I might be productive at different times and in a different way. However, people need to feel secure that what is asked of them is clear \u2013it should be asked in terms of productivity, in terms of output\u2013 and how this will be evaluated is also clear. And from there on, let everyone decide how they want to manage it. But not the same for everyone. That is not the appropriate message I believe.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yes, and perhaps this kind of inclusion in care, as you said, can take other forms. Because I might work until midnight, for example, but then I may have to stop at lunchtime to pick up my kids from school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And what we\u2019re trying to do, at least on our end, is make that visible. Say that, you know, \u201cLook, I\u2019ll be gone during this time.\u201d That way you know that I\u2019ll need to go, so that you also have the option to take time off when you need to. I\u2019m putting it in simple terms now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And this is where the social aspect comes in. The social dimension, which I feel we haven\u2019t quite found in Greece yet. You mentioned something really nice: that I can work until the evening, but at noon I want to have a little more freedom. And that\u2019s exactly the approach. We talk about this culture of care as something external that happens to some people, as something that\u2019s an exception. And that\u2019s precisely the opportunity, but also the difficulty, of a small business. This shouldn\u2019t be an exception. It\u2019s a way of life. I mean, statistically, at some point most people will need some form of flexibility for care \u2013 regardless of what \u201ccare\u201d may mean in this context. When we see this as part of life and not as an exception or as something that just happened to Stella or George, then the reasons don\u2019t have to be so strictly defined. It could be a child who is young and needs care. Or a parent who needs care\u2026 There are countless things that fall into the category. It\u2019s part of life, and that\u2019s how it should be integrated into the culture. And when it\u2019s a small company, this can be put into practice much more easily. When it has grown too big, that\u2019s where it gets difficult because so many people are involved. Indeed, every person is different. It becomes a bit more complex. But in small companies, I believe this is a challenge, yet at the same time a huge advantage.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I\u2019m thinking about what you said regarding how we can view this as something normal. We\u2019re currently at the WHEN Hub, a space designed to bring work and care together. And as many of our listeners know, this space began to take shape as an idea many years ago. My colleague at the time, Evita Kolokouri, when we first started discussing this space, told me that her parents were teachers and would come home from school at lunchtime so they could eat together. And when I started working in companies and realised that if I had children, I would never be with them for lunch on weekdays, that made a huge impression on me. And it was something I hadn\u2019t thought about before, because my mom also worked late, and we didn\u2019t eat lunch together. But I thought about how nice it is to learn from other people\u2019s experiences when it comes to caregiving. And that brings me to the question of what we have to learn from the new people entering the job market, who, I think, bring along this \u2013I won\u2019t say demand, but this need, this expectation\u2013 this request more strongly. What can we learn from this, and how optimistic are you that we can learn or not? Because I see a great deal of resistance to viewing this as a new way of working rather than as a bad habit. What have you personally learned from this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> This is one of my favourite topics, I should let you know. And it\u2019s one of my favourite topics because \u2013 let me explain my reasoning to you. I\u2019m very much in favour of it; I\u2019m a huge fan of the younger generation, and I\u2019m also opposed to the belief that the younger generation is spoiled, doesn\u2019t want to work, wants everything to come easily, and doesn\u2019t want to be pushed. Because looking at the big picture, what I see the younger generation wanting is balance. And that\u2019s very ugly on one hand, but understandable on the other, of course, because we\u2019ve put up so much resistance to it. I say it\u2019s unfortunate because, obviously, wanting balance is a good thing. On the other hand, though, it\u2019s understandable because, let\u2019s face it, generations upon generations grew up in very different ways, especially in Greece. And I understand that deep down there might also be a bit of jealousy \u2013 why didn\u2019t we have that? Because I used to work until midnight, while others work an eight-hour day and get the same compensation, which I had to work much harder to earn. But this is progress, and it\u2019s entirely legitimate, and we all stand to benefit from it as well. It\u2019s like we hit two targets with one arrow. So, the new generation brings a need for balance. They\u2019ve realized that a working relationship is a give-and-take and not a one-sided arrangement, like we viewed it in the past. I\u2019d also say the end of the millennials is on the horizon; that\u2019s where I believe the change has started to come from. Young people are evaluating employers, something that never happened before. They can seek certain things; they can demand certain things. And if those things don\u2019t materialise, they can walk away to look for something better. And this is often seen as laziness, but everyone must pursue their own dream, their own way of expressing themselves, and their own career. And all of this is perfectly legitimate. There\u2019s a lot of resistance. There have been some social and professional steps taken in recent years with, in my opinion, somewhat questionable motives. I mean, the motives are more about finding talent than about actually caring for people. But that\u2019s okay; let\u2019s look at the positive side. It\u2019s happening for a reason, and there is a positive impact. Many companies in highly competitive industries also understand that they need to move in this direction. Hence, they\u2019re starting to make changes for talent again. I mean, it\u2019s ultimately for profit, but again, that doesn\u2019t matter. But I don\u2019t know that that\u2019s enough unless more legislation is passed. Because we\u2019re talking about competition, we\u2019re talking about talent, we\u2019re talking about specific companies \u2013 primarily tech companies and AI. Fine, but what about the millions of other people who don\u2019t work in those sectors, whose jobs may be at risk due to this technological advancement, and where companies don\u2019t face such a shortage of labour? How are they protected? How do they advocate for themselves? Therefore, we are at a crossroads, but in my opinion, legislative action is needed on many fronts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Both legislative initiatives and a proper assessment of needs, because often measures are introduced that, instead of actually helping us provide care, they complicate the situation both for the people we aim to help and for those responsible for implementing these policies. And perhaps it\u2019s also a matter of transition, because, yes, it\u2019s always difficult to switch to a new work management system. So, we often complain about it for that reason, because change is hard for us. But there are also things that, over time, seem to limit flexibility instead\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b> <span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">And this also has to do with our failure to see the bigger picture. Let\u2019s take parental leave for instance. It\u2019s not just about how, for example, a woman will have more days of leave. It\u2019s also about how, for example, the father will be able to have the same number of days of leave to provide support. We often follow a logic where, as people, if a hand hurts, we cut it off. Instead of taking a broader view of how we can help the system \u2013the system in a figurative sense\u2013 and how we can help a family. Because if the other part of the family isn\u2019t helped, we\u2019ll never be able to achieve the balance we\u2019re aiming for. And it\u2019s this one-sided approach that traps us in this vicious cycle, where, years later, we\u2019re still saying we haven\u2019t gotten there yet. Because we don\u2019t look at it collectively. Companies don\u2019t look at it collectively. I mean, even in large organisations, we\u2019ll always go to the problem and say, \u201cGreat, how can we address the issue of women\u2019s leave or women\u2019s return to work?\u201d Brilliant. And we have to do it 100%. It won\u2019t have the same impact unless we also take care of the fathers. We go about, for example, participating in such-and-such Career Fair and sign such-and-such agreement to show our diversity. And at a table of the top 20, top 50, there isn\u2019t a single woman, there isn\u2019t another ethnicity, there isn\u2019t an LGBT person. And all of this just goes back to a never-ending cycle.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Yes, and I think this also has to do with a certain laziness we all have as human beings and as societies. That, okay, we can\u2019t possibly deal with everyone\u2019s complaints, with everyone\u2019s needs. Why, really? I think we can challenge even harder things than what we already do. I have one last question. Small businesses and small organisations, as we know, rarely have HR infrastructure or people to advise and support them, I\u2019d say \u2013 even though, in many cases it would be extremely helpful. If you had the opportunity to spend a month at a small company, what would be the first thing you\u2019d do to foster a culture of care within that company?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Two things that are certainly very important are talking with the leadership and understanding what the\u2026 where the organisation is headed, first and foremost. Because it exists to achieve something, whether it is a nonprofit or for-profit. How will it go about achieving whatever it wants to achieve, and how do I think it can achieve it? That is, the most essential part of the work itself. And then, what are people\u2019s needs? I would very much like to know. Which, and I say this from my experience in large companies, is not done. We don\u2019t ask. We bring in best practices \u2013 what we always call best practices. What does such-and-such company do, what does such-and-such country do, what did they vote for in such-and-such country. We don\u2019t ask what our own workforce wants, which varies greatly from one company to another. In other words, working at a tech company with an average age of, say, 30, versus working at a blue-collar company where the average age might be 50 \u2013 these are two different worlds in terms of their needs. We need to bring this to the surface. There is a reason to understand, to learn what people need, so that we can build our policies on that foundation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And this diversity you described also has to do with how we will go about assessing needs. I\u2019m thinking right now about a quantitative survey questionnaire I had to fill out yesterday, where I didn\u2019t understand half the questions \u2013why they were asking them\u2013 and how I was driven to answer based on what I was thinking in the moment. And I think about the person in the factory, the person in cleaning services \u2013 how are they supposed to convey their needs and their lived experience through this sort of questionnaire that we see so often.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> That\u2019s absolutely right. And here comes another big part of how and why the concept sometimes gets distorted. Not just the culture of care and such actions in general. It\u2019s that it isn\u2019t measured. And when we try to measure it, we measure it with the wrong data. We measure it by asking, \u201cDid we do it? We did. Did we ask for high-level feedback? Yes, we did\u201d. We don\u2019t see the result of that. To what extent do these people become more productive? To what extent is the risk of burnout actually reduced for these people? Because we always talk about all this and always take it for granted that, well, if the organisation doesn\u2019t suit you, you\u2019ll just get up and leave to go next door. But that won\u2019t happen 90% of the time. The person will stay there and keep trying to produce to the point of exhaustion. They\u2019ll keep trying to produce at the expense of their own productivity, with reduced commitment.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> With resentment, too. And a bad relationship within their team or with their employer or whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Exactly. And that\u2019s where the question comes in: \u201cFine, but why should I go through all this when that\u2019s pretty much how all companies in Greece operate?\u201d It has an impact. It might not be the immediate one \u2013such as me leaving tomorrow\u2013 but it\u2019s what I offer, which is why you have me here. And of course, we need to understand where we should start. I mean, even now when we are talking about the culture of care, the burden is probably not evenly distributed in the world. It\u2019s not evenly distributed based on gender, nor based on ethnicity. If we bring this to the surface, we\u2019ll keep moving in circles.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0 That\u2019s right. Thank you very much, George.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I thank you.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> You\u2019ve shared a lot of wisdom today, and we\u2019re going to put it to good use.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>George:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Thank you so much!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What did you think of everything that we discussed with George today? What other actions do you think CAREdiZO could develop to bring us one step closer to equality, in and out of the workplace? We are here to read and listen to your suggestions, comments and ideas: follow us on our social media, email us, leave a review on Spotify, come and meet us at the WHEN Hub in Athens, and let\u2019s keep the conversation going\u2026 to make WHEN \u2013and CAREdiZO\u2013 even better for the benefit of everyone, women and men.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>                                                <\/div>\r\n                                            <\/div>\r\n                                        <\/div>\r\n                                    <\/div>\r\n                                                            <\/div>\r\n                                                                    <\/div>\r\n                <\/div>\r\n                    <\/div>\r\n    <\/div>\r\n<\/section>\n\n\n<div class=\"text\">\n    <p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>The WHEN on Topic Podcast is available on all major platforms!<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">You can listen to all episodes on any platform you listen to your podcasts on \u2013 we are on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/09iNBpLA8e3zfkAMZBVqyi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Spotify<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/1924253\/listings\/3126301\/edit\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Buzzsprout<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vMjQzNDEzL3Jzcw?hl=en-GR\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Google podcasts<\/b><\/a>\u00a0&amp;\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/podcast\/id1496502155\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Apple podcasts<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/pd\/Women-On-Topic-Podcast\/B09VG1JD3R?\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Amazon music<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/5qc63x16\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Pocket Casts<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcastaddict.com\/podcast\/3795610\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Podcast Addict<\/b><\/a>,\u00a0and of course on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/blacklemon.tv\/podcasts\/women-topic\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Black Lemon<\/b><\/a><b>\u2018<\/b>s platform.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">The\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/caredizo.eu\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CAREdiZO<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0project is implemented in the framework of the European Commission\u2019s CERV Programme, as a cooperation among the\u00a0 following organisations: Challedu (Greece), WHEN (Greece), MOTERU INFORMACIJOS CENTRAS (Lithuania), NATSIONALNA MREZHA ZA BIZNES RAZVITIE (Bulgaria), Mediterranean Institute of Gender Studies (Cyprus). The project is funded by the European Union. The views and opinions expressed are, nonetheless, solely those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Commission-EU. Neither the European Union nor the European Commission is responsible for them. Project code: 101191047 \u2013 CAREdiZO \u2013 CERV-2024-GE.<\/p>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Can a culture of caregiving exist within businesses and organizations when there are no policies and procedures? In the new episode of our podcast, Stella Kasdagli discusses with George Filtsos, Head of Employee Relations and People Advisory at Kaizen, how the culture of a business or organization is formed beyond policies, and how the tools used by large companies can be applied to small businesses and organizations.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":18,"featured_media":40181,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[437,385,460],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-40174","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-european-programs","category-nea-en","category-when-on-topic"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Beyond policies: cultivating a culture of care &#8226; WHEN<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Can a culture of caregiving exist within businesses and organizations when there are no policies and procedures? 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