{"id":37277,"date":"2025-06-23T14:20:32","date_gmt":"2025-06-23T11:20:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/?p=37277"},"modified":"2026-04-21T17:21:55","modified_gmt":"2026-04-21T14:21:55","slug":"when-on-topic-why-are-we-discussing-care-at-work","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/en\/when-on-topic-why-are-we-discussing-care-at-work\/","title":{"rendered":"WHEN on Topic: Why are we discussing care at work?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"text\">\n    <h6 style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>WHEN on Topic: Why are we discussing care at work?<\/strong><\/h6>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">WHEN on Topic is back with <\/span><b>a new season, a new name and a new focus<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: equality in care!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Starting with the most central question \u2013why discuss care in the workplace\u2013 in the first episode of the new series, Stella Kasdagli, co-founder of WHEN\/inc.lude and author, welcomes Asimina Brouzou, co-founder of the organisation Challedu. Together they introduce us to <\/span><b>the<\/b> <a href=\"https:\/\/when.org.gr\/en\/caredizo-care-is-everyones-responsibility\/\"><b>new European project CAREdiZO<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">: a project that aims to bridge the gender gap in <\/span><b>caring responsibilities<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> and empower small businesses and organisations to adopt <\/span><b>equality policies and practices<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Through this focused conversation on the <\/span><b>challenges<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> faced by carers \u2013whether the recipient is <\/span><b>a child, an elderly parent <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">or a member of their <\/span><b>community<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u2013 we explore questions such as:<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is the reality of those who take on caring responsibilities in small organisations?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How is our professional life affected when we become the main carers of others?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What part do stereotypes and gender roles play in the unequal allocation of such responsibilities?<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How can we change the culture \u2013 not only concerning relevant policies, but also in practice and in our daily lives?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This episode is the beginning of <\/span><b>Season 4 <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">of #WHENonTopic, a series of episodes that will highlight caring as a key issue of equity and professional justice. As Asimina Brouzou points out in the first episode, the time has come for men to stop just \u201chelping\u201d because women ask them to and, instead, <\/span><b>take on their own equal caregiving responsibilities!<\/b><\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<div class=\"text\">\n    <p><iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: WHEN on Topic: \u0393\u03b9\u03b1\u03c4\u03af \u03c3\u03c5\u03b6\u03b7\u03c4\u03ac\u03bc\u03b5 \u03b3\u03b9\u03b1 \u03c4\u03b7 \u03c6\u03c1\u03bf\u03bd\u03c4\u03af\u03b4\u03b1 \u03c3\u03c4\u03b7\u03bd \u03b5\u03c1\u03b3\u03b1\u03c3\u03af\u03b1;\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/6Cw4nD3CrWCNASvCDuueUE?go=1&#038;sp_cid=51cfa475821b6c604c153415e947866c&#038;utm_source=oembed&#038;utm_medium=desktop\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n<section id=\"nvm-faq-block_8bece86fbc65609ab12c34c29c4ab3d3\" class=\"nvm-faq alignfull\">\r\n    <div class=\"panel panel-width-normal\">\r\n        <div class=\"row small-align-self-center\">\r\n                                        <div class=\"small-column-100 laptop-margin-10 laptop-column-80 small-align-self-center\">\r\n                    <div class=\"faq-wrapper\">\r\n                        <h2 class=\"title color-onyx\">Read the podcast!<\/h2>\r\n                                                    <div class=\"faq-container\">\r\n                                                                    <div class=\"responsiville-accordion\">\r\n                                        <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-panel\">\r\n                                            <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-header color-onyx\">\r\n                                                WHEN on Topic - Episode 1 | Why are we discussing care at work?                                            <\/div>\r\n                                            <div class=\"responsiville-accordion-content\">\r\n                                                <div class=\"text\">\r\n                                                    \n<div class=\"text\">\n    <p><b>Introduction:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Welcome to the new season of WHEN on Topic \u2013 I\u2019m Stella Kasdagli and yes, you\u2019re not mistaken, our podcast\u2019s name has changed, as did our organisation\u2019s name! Women On Top became WHEN, but as before it continues to invest in women\u2019s professional and economic empowerment and equality at work \u2013 sometimes even outside of it! For example, our current podcast series is dedicated to caregiving responsibilities and their equal allocation, coming to you thanks to CAREdiZO.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is CAREdiZO? It is a new project we are involved in, under the European Commission\u2019s CERV programme, which aims to bridge the gender gap in caring responsibilities by promoting equality practices at home, in micro-enterprises and small civil society organisations (with up to 10 employees).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The project supports family-friendly policies, encourages men to participate in caregiving and highlights the value of caregiving in the wider society \u2013 in other words, what we have been advocating for all along! Its activities include research, co-creation workshops, training programmes and the development of digital tools, such as an educational game and podcasts, aimed at combating stereotypes and promoting equality.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This first podcast episode is dedicated to the project and was created specifically for the purpose of introducing the project and the two organisations running it from Greece: WHEN and Challedu. The rest of our partners come from Cyprus, Lithuania and Bulgaria and are currently developing their own podcasts, which you may have a chance to discover shortly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Until then, let\u2019s now meet Asimina Brouzou, founder of Challedu, and discuss together how we came about to CAREdiZO and why equal sharing of caring responsibilities is so important but so elusive, still, for most of us!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Asimina, welcome to WHEN on Topic.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Good to be here, Stella.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and Challedu?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Of course. Challedu is a non-profit organisation involved in creating educational materials and tools as well as workshops related to education and inclusion. Within these topics we essentially include gender equality for people of various ages, from students to adults. I\u2019m one of the two founding members of Challedu and, at the moment, I\u2019m responsible for organising the team and creating new projects on equality issues, as well as inclusion, and all relevant areas we are now discussing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One of these projects brings us here today and we will be discussing your role and our role within the project next. But I\u2019d like to start with a more personal question: How have you managed any challenges that have come up in your life, both professional and personal, and the combination of both, along with any caregiving responsibilities that you may have, as a mother, a daughter and a caregiver?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Basically, I think that the challenges are many, on many levels, and they are changing at different ages as well. I mean, before having children, before I became a mother, I was already facing a lot of challenges in the professional field: as a woman actually at the head of Challedu, in creating opportunities for the organisation, in getting the funding so that the programmes could be realised. Then, when the children came into the picture, I think that\u2019s where it became even more challenging&#8230; I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s your experience too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u2026you realised then that before was nothing in comparison.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Exactly, I got a little bit into the deep right away \u2013 I mean, I had twin girls, which was a level, I think, higher than having one child. In essence, it made it quite difficult to, I would say, combine, I guess, work \u2013 especially in an organisation like ours, which is small, and every person counts; and I was an important member of the team. So, it was quite a challenging time, achieving a balance between the two. While a certain balance may have been found eventually, I think it\u2019s still not complete \u2013 because of the feeling of guilt: whether I should be with my kids more, whether I should be working more in the organisation. It\u2019s a bit like&#8230; a chain of things coming all together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I completely agree. You also mentioned a key word, that is \u201csmall\u201d. And it\u2019s worth noting here that the project that brings us here today, CAREdiZO, focuses on the challenges of working individuals in small organisations and small businesses, but also the challenges of the organisations and small businesses themselves that are called upon to support individuals in these caregiving responsibilities, as well. So, I think that\u2019s a theme that\u2019s going to be with us in the next few episodes. Here, what you\u2019re describing&#8230; of course, we all face challenges at work \u2013 whether we have children or other caregiving responsibilities, or not. But, indeed, when other people come into our lives or the needs of others, family members, emerge and require our attention \u2013whether on a regular basis or occasionally\u2013 then the degree of complexity of all the other things we manage increases exponentially. And let us say here that this is not just about parenting and children. It\u2019s also about our role as caregivers to our parents growing up, to other people in the family&#8230; And potentially \u2013because in WHEN we also talk a lot about community\u2013 not just the people in our family. It\u2019s also people in our environment who we may want to support, who may have supported us, who may find themselves in a challenging time, and to whom we may want to offer the care that they need.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Exactly \u2013 that has happened in our organisation. That is, apart from me as an individual, it has happened to other people working in our organisation, Challedu\u2026 We have had to take more \u201cpersonal\u201d measures, I would say, as there are not enough in place within the wider system or by the state, which would allow us to meet our responsibilities. So, in a way, we as an organisation are trying to fill that gap \u2013 so that the people we work with every day can feel that we are there, that we are close to them. And it\u2019s important that they too can be close to the people they have under their care.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> I think that\u2019s a common thread that we\u2019ve already witnessed in the preliminary focus groups that we have run as part of CAREdiZO. We may often perceive entrepreneurs or employers as \u201cdry professionals\u201d only interested in profit \u2013 in reality, the entrepreneurs and founders of non-profit organisations we have spoken to clearly express the need and desire to support employees in their lives beyond work. For some this may as well be a strategy \u2013 wanting to keep the best people happy in their workplaces. In many cases, though, this intention is often based on a solid human perception. What\u2019s frequently missing is not the intention, but the tools and the know-how for employers in practice. I believe that is one of the key objectives of the CAREdiZO project.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Yes, I think so too\u2026 I think when we designed CAREdiZO, looking both at the statistics that were out there in terms of care and basically non-equality in care issues, as well as at what policies are in place or not in place, we could see a very big gap as far as very small organisations and also companies are concerned. It doesn\u2019t have to do that much with the individual founding member or entrepreneur, I think \u2013 in reality, it\u2019s about lack of knowledge of practices, having to look for yourself alone, and being in the midst of the chaos of the many things there are to do and to grow\u2026 that\u2019s where a more human approach comes in: \u201cif something is happening now, we\u2019ll deal with it\u201d, but more broadly speaking we don\u2019t have specific policies in mind. So, I think that\u2019s where CAREdiZO will be investing quite a lot \u2013 discussing such issues to find new practices and new paths among ourselves. For me, it\u2019s something that I personally think we need: practices shifting from the merely personal level \u2013the \u201coh, I\u2019m here today taking care\u201d\u2013 when tomorrow or the day after tomorrow somebody else is in my position and they won\u2019t know how to manage\u2026 We need to go to something a little bit more targeted and systematic.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Very well said\u2026 Definitely, I think it is something that we are also concerned about, as we grow as an organisation. Because something that was working when we were three people doesn\u2019t necessarily work when we are ten. This is what we also recommend to companies that we work with \u2013 that there is both an equal treatment of all individuals and promoting male involvement in caring responsibilities. A lot of times, these informal benefits usually go to women, because we stereotype them in our minds as the ones who are going to take on most of the caregiving. Furthermore, when something is not documented nor tested or documented in a systematic way, sometimes bias or personal sympathy may come in. For example: \u201cI think Asimina is a good employee, so now she deserves an extra holiday.\u201d Or: \u201cI think Dimitris hasn\u2019t been performing very well and is now slacking off by saying he wants to take care of his mother, so I won\u2019t grant him the leave.\u201d We need objective criteria and a system, so that we can be confident \u2013 and so that individuals feel that they are being treated equally.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Certainly, this is very important \u2013 the policies and practices that are developed within companies create this sense of fairness, if we can call it that, of equal perception. But I would also like to stress the issue of stereotyping. Because a lot of times, before we designed CAREdiZO, while working \u2013being a mother of twins, one-year-olds\u2013 I was basically the full carer (as there was no other option, because leave days are more and the financial support through leave is also greater for the mother too). My husband needed to work, because with two children it is impossible to make ends meet \u2013 to just say that he stops to help me or that he takes unpaid leave&#8230; But essentially, for me \u2013maybe for you too, you\u2019ll let us know\u2013 gender equality being our area of expertise, I feel we hadn\u2019t delved enough into the issues of care and unequal participation in it. A new chapter was being revealed to me: that, indeed, in our homes care issues are not in fact shared. But it was also a matter of stereotyping \u2013 my own, our culture\u2019s. So, it\u2019s a cultural issue as well, I would say, beyond the broader politics. I think that is also an area where CAREdiZO can succeed: to actually shift the culture, both in women and men. I think that the \u201cmen\u201d aspect is very important; that men put themselves in the position of taking on caregiving \u2013 not because women may be asking for it, nagging for help, but instead for them to consider it on their own initiative. There is also talk about the mental burnout in women, which really translates to having to think about all the little things that the children need\u2026 the people they care for\u2026 taking care of the house \u2013 this is what I do, spontaneously, at some point. Because I know it\u2019s going to take me longer to explain it. So, I think it\u2019s good to support women and empower them, but it\u2019s much more important \u2013in some respects, at least \u2013 to empower men in regards to this issue: changing stereotypes and taking on their part of responsibility.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> Certainly. A very recent example being the questionnaire that we have been running for working people to share with us how they themselves experience caregiving responsibilities. And we had to \u201cchase down\u201d \u2013figuratively speaking\u2013 a lot more male participants to answer the questionnaire. They may not see themselves in this role as a principle or it is possible that they believe they already know what I am going to ask them. Or else, they may think this issue doesn\u2019t concern them or even feel a degree of guilt because there is all this talk about unequal allocation\u2026 I don\u2019t know. In any case, I think we need \u2013as a society\u2013 to start rewarding care. Reward it as much as we reward power, as much as we reward beauty, as much as we reward professional success. Not just for that, but because, many times, when we talk to employers, they may say, \u201cI do things in my company, I offer equal leave. But parents don\u2019t go for it; caregivers don&#8217;t go for it.\u201d Because society is shaped in such a way that it is assumed that the woman will play the bigger part in this. So, we kind of throw the ball at each other.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> And here I\u2019d like to talk a little bit about the CAREdiZO pun, which comes from the Greek verb \u201cto earn\u201d (\u201ckerdizo\u201d), but also from the verb \u201cto care\u201d. In fact, we must consider that \u201cto care\u201d is a job \u2013sometimes unpaid \u2013 that really allows us \u201cto earn\u201d in our lives. That is, there can be no living in today\u2019s world without caring.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> In closing, I would like you to tell me what you think we would like to change, in more practical terms, so that in a few years from now we get to talk about a more equal sharing of care among genders in place\u2026 And how you\u2019d think CAREdiZO could contribute to that. With what tools, practices, data possibly?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> First of all, I think a very important step is to open up the discussion around this issue. I bring my personal experience in once more, because when I saw the percentages, the statistics and so on, I was really stunned \u2013 not only by the studies that have already been conducted that I was not aware of, but also in terms of perceptions that both women and men hold about the unequal allocation of care. Therefore, an important chapter is to open up the discussion on these issues, to look at different ways of dealing with and sharing care, because that\u2019s also a stake. In theory, one may think \u201cI deal with the house and the children, and the other person deals with work and outside errands,\u201d but is that equal work? And over time, do some of these outside errands just end, while the work at home remains? Now I\u2019m even talking about an elderly couple, where maybe the woman is still the one who cleans, cooks and does everything needed for the house, while taking care of children or relatives, and the man has already completed his working life. Again, I believe it\u2019s very important to open up the discussion, to look at different models, to explore policies and practices which could probably be transferred to very small organisations, but also to larger ones \u2013 I don\u2019t know how many policies actually exist in relation to that aspect. Essentially, we need to change the trajectory, I would say, starting off from CAREdiZO to discover something different.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Stella: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Super! And that\u2019s why we too are so excited to be a part of this project. When we started discussing this idea, we were very intrigued by the thought that we could approach social awareness around care issues the way Challedu approaches it \u2013 through play, knowledge, awareness and mindset shifting. So, we are really happy to be working with you and the other partners from Cyprus, Lithuania and Bulgaria. We will stay with you for several more podcast episodes on CAREdiZO and keep you informed about all the upcoming data, tools and actions that will come out of the project. Thank you very much, and good luck!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Asimina: <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Thank you very much for having me!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Closing note:<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> What did you think of everything that we shared with Asimina today? What other actions do you think CAREdiZO could develop to bring us one step closer to equality, in and out of the workplace? We are here to read and listen to your suggestions, comments and ideas: follow us on social media, email us, leave a review on Spotify, come and meet us at the WHEN Hub and let\u2019s keep the conversation going\u2026 to make WHEN \u2013and CAREdiZO\u2013 even better for the benefit of everyone, women and men.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<\/div>                                                <\/div>\r\n                                            <\/div>\r\n                                        <\/div>\r\n                                    <\/div>\r\n                                                            <\/div>\r\n                                                                    <\/div>\r\n                <\/div>\r\n                    <\/div>\r\n    <\/div>\r\n<\/section>\n\n\n<div class=\"text\">\n    <p style=\"text-align: center;\"><b>The WHEN on Topic Podcast is available on all major platforms!<\/b><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You can listen to all episodes on any platform you listen to your podcasts on \u2013 we are on <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/09iNBpLA8e3zfkAMZBVqyi\"><b>Spotify<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/1924253\/listings\/3126301\/edit\"><b>Buzzsprout<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vMjQzNDEzL3Jzcw?hl=en-GR\"><b>Google podcasts<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0&amp;\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/podcast\/id1496502155\"><b>Apple podcasts<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/pd\/Women-On-Topic-Podcast\/B09VG1JD3R?\"><b>Amazon music<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/5qc63x16\"><b>Pocket Casts<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">,\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/podcastaddict.com\/podcast\/3795610\"><b>Podcast Addict<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, and of course on\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/blacklemon.tv\/podcasts\/women-topic\/\"><b>Black Lemon<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u2019s platform.<\/span><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/caredizo.eu\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>CAREdiZO<\/b><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> project is implemented in the framework of the European Commission\u2019s CERV Programme, as a cooperation among the\u00a0 following organisations: Challedu (Greece), WHEN (Greece), MOTERU INFORMACIJOS CENTRAS (Lithuania), NATSIONALNA MREZHA ZA BIZNES RAZVITIE (Bulgaria), Mediterranean Institute of Gender Studies (Cyprus). The project is funded by the European Union. The views and opinions expressed are, nonetheless, solely those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Commission-EU. Neither the European Union nor the European Commission is responsible for them. Project code: 101191047 &#8211; CAREdiZO &#8211; CERV-2024-GE.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Starting with the most central question \u2013why discuss care in the workplace\u2013 in the first episode of the new series, Stella Kasdagli, co-founder of WHEN\/inc.lude and author, welcomes Asimina Brouzou, co-founder of the organisation Challedu. Together they introduce us to the new European project CAREdiZO: a project that aims to bridge the gender gap in caring responsibilities and empower small businesses and organisations to adopt equality policies and practices.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17,"featured_media":37336,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[385,460],"tags":[442],"class_list":["post-37277","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-nea-en","category-when-on-topic","tag-caredizo-en-2"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>WHEN on Topic: Why are we discussing care at work? &#8226; WHEN<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Starting with the most central question \u2013why discuss care in the workplace\u2013 in the first episode of the new series, Stella Kasdagli, co-founder of WHEN\/inc.lude and author, welcomes Asimina Brouzou, co-founder of the organisation Challedu. 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